MLB Umpire, UNSOLICITED, Overturns Another Umpire's Call

[Rich]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Once again, an umpire ventures too far onto the diamond to get a bad angle on a play at first. 2 to 3 steps is plenty, and keeps these types of mistakes from happening. I have no idea why the plate umpire made this overrule without first having the 1st base umpire come to him if he had a question. This sets a bad prescedent in my opinion.

Sorry, I don't buy this. If U1 read the throw properly and made a read step, he gets this call easily. I've seen more bad/lazy umpiring from the 2SF crowd than from those that work to get the proper 90-degree angle.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by UES

I don't care if its a crew chief, rookie or whoever - in rare circumstances like these, we must put our egos aside and fix the situation because, at the end of the day, these mishaps will make Umpiring as a whole look bad.

To me, this has zero to do with egos. If I make this call and I have the BR, the 1B Coach, all the players in the dugout, and eventually the team manager all telling me I missed it and I should get help, then By Golly that's what I'm going to do.

That's what should have happened here, but the PU jumped the gun and told everyone in the stadium and watching on TV, "It's now perfectly acceptable for one umpire to immediately overrule another without the benefit of a crew conference." For all we know, Baker might've done exactly what was expected--go for help when asked--and Barry could have then told him what he saw.

[UES]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Once again, an umpire ventures too far onto the diamond to get a bad angle on a play at first. 2 to 3 steps is plenty, and keeps these types of mistakes from happening.

I'm not as opposed to his positioning as I am that he did NOT read a true throw and made NO attempt to adjust to how the play developed ie. get a better angle... basically, he just let himself get straightlined. The ball was hit in the hole at SS and it was a long throw across the infield. This should have given him plenty of time to read that the throw was off line and make the necessary read step(s) one way or another to atleast try to see the pulled foot. Easier said, then done...especially at MLB speed but I would have just liked to see him make some kind of effort to readjust his angle.

[REFANDUMP]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

Sorry, I don't buy this. If U1 read the throw properly and made a read step, he gets this call easily. I've seen more bad/lazy umpiring from the 2SF crowd than from those that work to get the proper 90-degree angle.

Sorry, can't agree with you. I see no advantages to the 90, and have seen 3 MLB problems caused this year because of this position. What advantage is gained by going to a position which makes it more difficult to see a pulled foot or swipe tag ??

[UES]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Sorry, can't agree with you. I see no advantages to the 90...

Sometimes, it's just preference. Back in the day, many NL umpires preferred taking plays @ 1st just a couple steps inside the line (as REFANDUMP says) while many AL umpires used the 90 degree/angle-distance (as GROUPthink says).

Regardless of what method you use (there's pros & cons to both), everyone should always READ the throw, recognize the flight/direction of the ball and then set yourself accordingly. Once again, easier said then done

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Sorry, can't agree with you. I see no advantages to the 90, and have seen 3 MLB problems caused this year because of this position. What advantage is gained by going to a position which makes it more difficult to see a pulled foot or swipe tag ??

There are hazards with both, and you have to read and react on both. The ONLY advantage I really see is that 90 FORCES some hustle, where as 2SF doesn't - and in new guys, I think forcing the hustle eliminates any possible laziness - where as 2SF kind of lends itself to laziness.

However ... "laziness" should not be an issue at this level at all.

[jicecone]

I agree, the correct position is the one that enables you to see all of the action and still have the ability to adjust when something goes against the norm.

2SF, 90Deg, etc, are all good suggested starting points but, there is no perfect position if you aren't seeing the whole play and makig the right call.

In this situation as a veteran I probably would have been pissed that HP overruled the way he did however, for this situation, given those involved, it was handled properly.

Proper Mechanics is a good start to getting the call correct but, it doesn't work for every single play and you have to read and react and be willing to go that extra step to get the correct call.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Obviously goes against the previous time-honored practice that one umpire won't overturn another umpire's call. Perhaps this is the "new and improved" way of doing things that will be reflected in the 2013 version of the MLBUM.

Well, it's not in the 2012 version, I can assure you!

[Manny A]

Where was Scott Barry when you needed him here??

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Call: Johnson ejected as Prado ruled safe - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I guess Marvin Hudson gets more leeway as a veteran umpire than Jordan Baker did.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Where was Scott Barry when you needed him here??

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Call: Johnson ejected as Prado ruled safe - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I guess Marvin Hudson gets more leeway as a veteran umpire than Jordan Baker did.

Wow. Completely straightlined, he was guessing. Not Tim Welke bad, but bad.