The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 05, 2012, 10:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 26
Tournament seed question (home vs. visitor)

Hi guys. There is a question raised that I'd like to ask you guys who seem to be the best experts I've seen about the game, tournaments, etc. I'm coaching a Little League team (minor division) in a very intense 6-team double elimination tournament. We started out as the #3 seed and didn't get the first round bye (obviously). We have won all of our games and have remained in the winners bracket. Championship game coming up. The original #1 seed has a chance to come back out of the losers bracket and face us in the championship game. So here's the question--should the original #1 seed still get the "home team" advantage (by batting last) or do we earn the "home team" advantage by remaining in the winners bracket? I personally think we would still be the visiting team if the #1 seed comes out of the losers bracket to face us in the championship game. BUT, ironically, some of the league officials are saying otherwise. I just want to do what is right for the kids and get your all's opinion. Sorry for the off-topic question, but I can't find a definitive answer. Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 05, 2012, 10:12pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Wheaton, IL
Posts: 23,612
I do not think any one here can answer this question directly (other than opinion) as it would likely depend on the rules of the tournament. Also not knowing who is responsible for the tournament either is also one more reason we cannot answer this question as well. This is a tournament director/committee issue. We do not control this as umpires.

Peace
__________________
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 05, 2012, 10:54pm
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,967
In my coaching days years ago I have coached in many tournaments. I have also been tournament director for quite a few. I have never coached or been a TD for a tournament game, local, district, state or regional that home team was not decided by coin toss before the game. If I had to do it I would call Tails every time and if I could I would designate an assistant to go do the coin toss, because I did not care. My focus was on getting my team to score more than the other and play good defense. If your players get a vibe from you that you care who is home team, you have planted a bad seed.

Get over it, league officials are correct, toss a coin, send an assistant to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 05, 2012, 11:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
In my coaching days years ago I have coached in many tournaments. I have also been tournament director for quite a few. I have never coached or been a TD for a tournament game, local, district, state or regional that home team was not decided by coin toss before the game. If I had to do it I would call Tails every time and if I could I would designate an assistant to go do the coin toss, because I did not care. My focus was on getting my team to score more than the other and play good defense. If your players get a vibe from you that you care who is home team, you have planted a bad seed.

Get over it, league officials are correct, toss a coin, send an assistant to do it.
Thanks. Trust me, I'm "over it". Like I said in the original post, I was cool with just batting in the "visitor" slot. It's no big deal at all, and my kids are just having fun. I just figured you guys might know what the usual practice is in a tournament like this. I'll just let them flip a coin and let me know how it turns out when it comes time to have my kids bat or take the field. I'm so proud of all the kids. The playground has all different color jerseys on it after each game. They're having the time of their life.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 12:01am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 12,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaincoach View Post
Thanks. Trust me, I'm "over it". Like I said in the original post, I was cool with just batting in the "visitor" slot. It's no big deal at all, and my kids are just having fun. I just figured you guys might know what the usual practice is in a tournament like this. I'll just let them flip a coin and let me know how it turns out when it comes time to have my kids bat or take the field. I'm so proud of all the kids. The playground has all different color jerseys on it after each game. They're having the time of their life.
Did you really say a tournament played by 9 and 10 year olds was "intense?"
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 07:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by GROUPthink View Post
Did you really say a tournament played by 9 and 10 year olds was "intense?"
+1

The only thing they'll remember is how the ice cream was after the game(s).
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 08:11am
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 7,171
Ignore the dumb comments at the end... I remember games / seasons / tourneys from when I was 9 or 10. Some of them were intense TO ME, which is what matters.

Tournaments generally state somewhere what the home/visitor rules are for the tourney. I'd say that at least 3/4 of the tourneys I work do not use the seeding at all to determine home or visitor - it's a coinflip at the plate before the game. The higher seeds already have the advantage they've earned by virtue of the opponents they get to play. Additionally, at least half of those, perhaps a bit more, state that the ONLY game that is not flipped for is the winner bracket vs loser bracket game - winner bracket is home. In tourneys with IF games, the IF game is always a coin flip.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 09:29am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 12,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Ignore the dumb comments at the end... I remember games / seasons / tourneys from when I was 9 or 10. Some of them were intense TO ME, which is what matters.

Tournaments generally state somewhere what the home/visitor rules are for the tourney. I'd say that at least 3/4 of the tourneys I work do not use the seeding at all to determine home or visitor - it's a coinflip at the plate before the game. The higher seeds already have the advantage they've earned by virtue of the opponents they get to play. Additionally, at least half of those, perhaps a bit more, state that the ONLY game that is not flipped for is the winner bracket vs loser bracket game - winner bracket is home. In tourneys with IF games, the IF game is always a coin flip.
I umpire a ton of 9-10 year old tournament games as a bit of community service -- the only people it's intense for are the coaches and parents, it seems.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 12:12pm
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 7,171
You should have come to either of the recent USFA softball qualifiers I worked in NW Houston. Had you not been told in advance, you would not know these girls were 10. In size, in attitude, and in ability. Yes, 10U baseball and softball is often slightly more than babysitting, with the occasional 2-3 kids per team that can play and take it seriously. But most of the teams still playing this late into the season are for real - both boys and girls.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 12:14pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by GROUPthink View Post
I umpire a ton of 9-10 year old tournament games as a bit of community service -- the only people it's intense for are the coaches and parents, it seems.
Again, it depends on where you live, and what league it is. I've worked 9-10 LL Minors games that the players weren't very skilled or coordinated and spent most of their time chasing dandilions or picking their noses. Then I've worked 9-10 Mustang games with some very skilled young ballplayers who took the game quite seriously and these games were very competitive and intense.

I remember when I was a kid, we were more skilled as a general rule, and played the game with intensity from Day 1. That was back when baseball was all there was to do during baseball season.
__________________
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25

Last edited by SanDiegoSteve; Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:16pm.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 26
Thanks for the comments. Heck yeah it's intense at times, but not in a malignant way. We have 6 teams in the league this year, and it's been one of those years where there was not a marquee dominant team but rather a bunch of teams running neck and neck. And trust me, they are very aware of the score at all times. It's coach pitch (age is 7-9 with a handful of 6 year olds). I saw a 9 year old kid bounce one of those semi-hard "level 5" training baseballs off the center field fence the other day. In years past, we've definitely had a lot of dandelion pickers, but man they have really improved as a whole group. We make sure they have a good time, and I keep telling them "guys, this is the time of your life, enjoy it". I just hope they someday look back and see that after they progress into the competitiveness of the upper levels and life itself. They constantly bug me throughout the game with "what's the score, do we get to bat again, i need to go the bathroom, etc." Then, after the game, they all go to the playground and have fun, no matter what color jersey they're wearing.

As for the comment about when WE were kids--heck yeah I agree. We didn't have ipods, xboxes, six zillion TV channels, etc. My dad bought us a wooden bat and one baseball. And we taught OURSELVES how to play in the front yard. Where there was an argument on a play, we learned how to work it out among ourselves. I honestly think the 9-12 year old Little League teams from 25 years ago in my community could demolish the teams now. We lived to play ball.

Last edited by Mountaincoach; Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:10pm.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 03:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,382
Hmmmmm!
  • Little League
  • 60' diamond
  • Fenced in field (normally in LL)
  • Home field advantage?
Please tell me how a home field is an advantage on a field that is pretty much the same where ever you go. Unless there is a better snack bar on one field as opposed to another, I do not see an advantage.
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 03:46pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
Hmmmmm!
  • Little League
  • 60' diamond
  • Fenced in field (normally in LL)
  • Home field advantage?
Please tell me how a home field is an advantage on a field that is pretty much the same where ever you go. Unless there is a better snack bar on one field as opposed to another, I do not see an advantage.
He didn't mention a home "field" advantage, he said home "team" advantage, which is always advantages in that you get the last at bats.
__________________
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 06, 2012, 09:55pm
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,967
When I was 9 there was no such thing as a 9-10 league, there were 9-12 leagues and if you were a very good 9 or 10 year old you make the team and get to practice for a couple years with the older guys till you paid your dues. If you were not good enough, you go home.

Now there are competitive 9-10 year olds becuase they are playing, with kids their own age, and have been for several years. And there are Fall leagues so they play some more. And there are very competitive and intense 9-10 year old tournaments. Even 20 years ago, when my kids were that age the tournaments they played in were intense. I remember them well and I feel sure the players do too, and I am sure the players remember nothing about how the ice cream tasted, because there was none to be tasted after games.

Some here are shooting off mouth about things they know nothing about.

Last edited by DG; Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:58pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2012, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve View Post
He didn't mention a home "field" advantage, he said home "team" advantage, which is always advantages in that you get the last at bats.
Oh, you're right, my bad.....
Well, just score more runs than the other team and don't allow them to score and you'll win! Home field, Home team doesn't matter then!
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Help with Tournament chrismb Basketball 7 Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:59pm
First Tournament IHSAref Volleyball 1 Mon Oct 08, 2007 07:17pm
Home Run Question ddb Baseball 16 Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:52am
tag play at home-catcher in baseline question nfsx2417 Baseball 11 Wed Mar 31, 2004 09:26pm
Caoches ~ Planting the Seed Blackhawk357 Basketball 18 Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:05am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1