Another FED 2 Man Mechanics

[pastordoug]

Since everyone was so helpful on the last post about mechanics I have a few more..... This is what the State Manual says:

Runner on 1st....Ground ball rolling up the third base line, the PU comes out from behind the plate to make fair/foul call... HERE IS WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND?

"If PU point’s the ball fair and the ball is then thrown to first base, he will then continue up the third base line towards third base and assume responsibility of the runner coming from first to third".

Can anyone give me a reason for this? Again, being the new kid in town I don’t want to stir up anything but just want to know why these mechanics are done this way and cannot get a straight answer except “that’s the way we do it down here”… So my approach is trying to put together reasonable reasons to look at making changes that would be better for putting us in the best position to make calls.

[mbyron]

A reason the FED manual has something dumb? Nope.

If there were a reason, it wouldn't be dumb. :shrug:

But I will say this: PU has to come up the 3BL for fair/foul, so he won't be able to help will swipe tag etc. at 1B. He might as well get in position for a call at 3B.

[pastordoug]

Shouldn't have to go that far up the line? Also since FU is in B what happens to an overthrow? Just bad mechanics to me.....

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

Shouldn't have to go that far up the line? Also since FU is in B what happens to an overthrow? Just bad mechanics to me.....

Becaue you're heading that way, your be in proper position for that banger at 3B if it should develop. If there is a play on R1 at 2B, then watch for the interference and head back toward the line for that overthrow you're worried about. If there isn't a play on R1 @ 2B, than head toward the library for the back door play at thrid. There isn't any reason for BU to have to air mail the call from the vicinity of A. If there is an overthrow, you won't be having a play at 3B, so stop, pick up the ball and head back toward the plate, (remember you're still responsible for R1's touch of 3B) the overthrow will be your responsibility as BU takes BR around. To quote Jim Evans....sometimes you just have to umpire. The basic concept is the bang bang play at 3B is more important. Although CCA mechanics say, stay in the vicinity for the plate for the swipe tag pulled foot, and let BU take the second play at 3B should it occur, and air mail that call. Personally, I prefer the Pro mechanic of moving to 3B for that very reason. Once R1 is out at 2B, you can cut across the infield toward the 1B line and gain distance toward the bag for the pulled foot, swipe tag, as well as the overthrow. Many here will disagree, however this is what is being taught in the Pro schools.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

.

In FED, whenever we have R1 and the ball is hit in the infield, for the most part the BU is on his her/own on a play at first base. In other words do not expect any help from the PU.

Why!

In FED they have the FPSR and it's the responsibility of the PU to watch for a possible violation of that rule should the defense throw to second base. Therefore, whenever the ball is hit in the infield the PU will come out and get in the best possible position to view a possible FPSR violation.

Reason being: The BU is turning away from the play as soon as F4/F6 releases the ball to make the call at first base and therefore, will not be in position or see any possible interference on the part of R1 UNLESS it happens right in front of him.

In your OP we had a slow roller up the thrid base line and the PU following the ball to call Fair / Foul, Therefore, the PU is "right there" should there be a play at third base. If there is an overthrow the PU can adjust rather easily.

In summary the mechanic makes sense.

Also, FWIW I wish they would do away with "the PU should be ready in case of a pulled foot / swipe tag"

BU's should make THEIR own calls PERIOD. The PU already has enough responsibilities and the BU should be able to make THEIR own calls. Also, some BU's use this as a "crutch" way too much.

Pete Booth

[pastordoug]

I do understand the thinking behind already "being there" however I still believe that there is more of a probability of something happening around 1st (overthrow, pulled foot, 45 ft line....) which would serve the PU better to be over that way. Isn't the BU first concern with a play at 2nd anyway which means he shouldn't be moving towards 1st?
As for the way "pro" is teaching that mechanic I have not attended a pro camp but haven't seen to many pro games run a 2 man system? But sure appricate the comments.

[RichMSN]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

I do understand the thinking behind already "being there" however I still believe that there is more of a probability of something happening around 1st (overthrow, pulled foot, 45 ft line....) which would serve the PU better to be over that way. Isn't the BU first concern with a play at 2nd anyway which means he shouldn't be moving towards 1st?
As for the way "pro" is teaching that mechanic I have not attended a pro camp but haven't seen to many pro games run a 2 man system? But sure appricate the comments.

Pulled feet and swipe throws and other such squirrels are the job of the base umpire who is responsible for the call at first. As the plate umpire, I'll look if I have absolutely nothing to do, but all other responsibilities come first. Period.

Life would be so much easier on umpires who work hard to get into proper position if more umpires would simply say "No, I won't get help. It's my call to make, I saw it, and that's that."

[PeteBooth]

[quote=pastordoug;658493]

I do understand the thinking behind already "being there" however I still believe that there is more of a probability of something happening around 1st (overthrow, pulled foot, 45 ft line....) which would serve the PU better to be over that way. Isn't the BU first concern with a play at 2nd anyway which means he shouldn't be moving towards 1st?

If something is happening around first base that call belongs to the BU. The BU should not be looking at the PU as a crutch. If the BU is having trouble with the swipe tag / pulled foot then they need to work on their mechanics.

In a 2 person system we sacrifice distance for angle so on a play at second base the BU cannot over commit.

Also, as I stated to you in FED there is the FPSR.

In FED, it is the responsibilty of the PU to look for possible interference at second base so when we have R1 and the ball is hit in the infield after Fair / Foul the PU should be moving towards the mound or what's more commonly termed "the Library" in case a play is made at second base.

In your OP F5 threw to F3 so the PU can now move to cover third base. If the ball is overthrown the Pu should have no trouble in adjusting.

I am with Rich. BU's need to start being responsible for THEIR own calls and not rely on the PU. The PU already has plenty of responsibilities in a 2 person system.

IMO, the reason you are having trouble understanding this mechanic or disagree with this mechanic is because you want the PU to "be there" on a play at first should there be a swipe tag / pulled foot and IMO the BU needs to make this call PERIOD. Also, since we have a throw coming from 3rd base for all practical purposes the 45 ft lane rule is moot.

Pete Booth

[pastordoug]

There's a couple of reasons for my "resistance" and he most likely is not using that particular mechanic in previous state.... Having said that my real issue is just wanting both PU and BU to be in the BEST position that 2 man allows...

Concerning distance and angle, while we knowing lose distance as a result of just 2 man, IMO we can gain both by being in the best position which of course varies from play to play....

Thanks.... BTW does your association practice that rotation?

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

haven't seen to many pro games run a 2 man system?

True, but they teach 2 man at the pro schools. Short season, A-ball - all 2 man. You have to be able to do 2 man before you can do 3 or 4 man. So that's what they teach.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

True, but they teach 2 man at the pro schools. Short season, A-ball - all 2 man. You have to be able to do 2 man before you can do 3 or 4 man. So that's what they teach.

Let's also not forget that most of the students don't even make it to Short Season ball. I don't know of a state that uses 3- or 4-man for regular season high school games, and I don't think college uses it in anything but Div 1, but I could be wrong.