BR passes R1 after HR

[voiceoflg]

Actually happened last weekend. NFHS scrimmage. R1, no out. Batter hits the ball over the wall in left center field. CF jumps up to catch ball over the wall but comes up empty. R1 rounds second but thinks CF catches it, rounds second back and heads toward first. BR rounds first and passes R1. R1 then realizes his mistake and heads back to second passing BR. Both cross the plate.

Umps confer behind HP. I heard the conversation as I was right behind the backstop. 1BU said both are out for passing each other. 3BU said neither are out because the passing happened after the ball went over the fence, that when the ball went over, it was a dead ball and both runs score. PU said BR only is out for passing R1, and once BR was out R1 passing him back did not matter. PU was nice enough to offer me the full explanation and his ruling stood, one run scored, one out.

Based on my knowledge of the rules (not enough, but gaining more) I believe the PU was correct. Was he? Is it different for NCAA and OBR?

Thanks.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Actually happened last weekend. NFHS scrimmage. R1, no out. Batter hits the ball over the wall in left center field. CF jumps up to catch ball over the wall but comes up empty. R1 rounds second but thinks CF catches it, rounds second back and heads toward first. BR rounds first and passes R1. R1 then realizes his mistake and heads back to second passing BR. Both cross the plate.

Umps confer behind HP. I heard the conversation as I was right behind the backstop. 1BU said both are out for passing each other. 3BU said neither are out because the passing happened after the ball went over the fence, that when the ball went over, it was a dead ball and both runs score. PU said BR only is out for passing R1, and once BR was out R1 passing him back did not matter. PU was nice enough to offer me the full explanation and his ruling stood, one run scored, one out.

Based on my knowledge of the rules (not enough, but gaining more) I believe the PU was correct. Was he? Is it different for NCAA and OBR?

Thanks.

PU was correct under all codes.

Note that had the play started with two outs (the BR being the third out), FED would have all other runners still scoring; other codes would have only those runners who crossed the plate prior to the passing scoring.

[johnnyg08]

Is there any interpretation that defines "passing a runner"? In this sitch, the BR. Is it his entire body or any portion of his body passing another runner?

[johnnyg08]

2008 BRD - 427 -- not necessarily the sitch described here, but I think we can figure it out from these explanations...

[johnnyg08]

refer to bob j's post...seems to be right on the money...I think these are the 2008 citations

FED: 8-4-2m
NCAA: 8-5m
OBR: 7.08h

[greymule]

". . . both are out for passing each other." I like it.

That ultra-literal interpretation reminds me of the misconception I had as a kid about preceding versus following runner. I assumed that a lone runner touching the base must be the preceding runner (after all, he got there first), and a runner retreating to that base therefore had to be the following runner. Therefore, if R2 advanced to 3B and then R3 returned to 3B and both runners were tagged while touching the base, R3 (as the "following" runner) would be the one called out. Luckily, I learned the correct ruling before I started umpiring.

[umpduck11]

The same type situation happened here a couple of years ago. Batter hits on of those will-it-make-it-or-not home runs, and rounds first, passing the baserunner who had held up to see it it was caught. Umpire ruled that the passing didn't matter because of the "dead ball".
The home team, on defense at the time, lost the game by one run. The visiting team won the area championship by virtue of that victory. DHC throws
everything that wasn't tied down out of his dugout, and STILL wasn't ejected. What does that tell us ????

[zm1283]

What set of rules does NAIA use? Do all runners score if the batter passes the runner on first or just the runners that crossed the plate before the passing?

[UmpJM]

zm1283,

NAIA uses OBR with "modifications" (e.g. re-entry for starters, FPSR, etc.), and I don't believe any of the modifications touch on the question being discussed here.

I would treat as in OBR, if the BR passes a preceding runner for the 3rd out, treat as a "time play" in regard to other runners scoring.

JM

[tballump]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

T DHC throws
everything that wasn't tied down out of his dugout, and STILL wasn't ejected. What does that tell us ????

Ump has no cojones.